As writen on the GTAMC.....I implore all of you who are not aware of the new Street racing law (aka Bill 203) to get familiar with it, and understand what it means for potential profiling and future ramifications of our hobbie.

There has been a petition drafted to revised the law and remove the seizure and license suspension portion of the new law. If you agree with what many of us are trying to get done, I urge you to sign the peition, I also urge you to pass on the link to all of your friends. We will need as much support as we can garner to get consideration to revise. We don't want the law to be abolished, we DO want safer roads, what we are asking is to remove the vehicle seizure portion, and license suspension portion from the current law.

As written

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Alright folks, here it is.

Revise Ontario Street Racing Legislation Petition

What we're asking for here is that the law be revised as opposed to scrapped....the part that we're asking for a revision on is the immediate 7-day vehicle seizure and licence suspension.

This way, the law can remain intact so those who feel it's warranted can support it....but, it will no longer be promoting this disturbing trend of new laws circumventing your right to due process and levying big upfront penalties with no recourse for the accused

please sign it, please have your family sign it....and please forward to other friends and family and have them sign it....we need a ton of signatures here

I've left no comment section on the petition....if you want to comment, rant, biatch or just stir up crap, we have a sticky in the Mustang discussions section....or you can go to just about any online forum and biatch to your heart's content....so it's not happening in the actual petition

thanks folks
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i hope they take your licence away if your caught... this is a stupid petition in my eyes..... you may as well say its ok to race on the roads

^Obviously you have not read how vague the new laws are, it's all officers discretion pretty much

Signed

where can I find the latest version of their idea of racing. Or is it the same since it's been an actual law....which I must say does fuck with your rights. I'm not saying I support street racing, what I'm saying is they need to find a better way to enforce it. An officers discretion can change based on personal issues, or even simply from person to person. Just like if they pull you over for speeding and they decide to give you a muffler ticket. pretty easy to beat if you know how to go at it.

This is the new law, the problem is that you lose your car and license before you have a chance to fight it, so you've already lost

ONTARIO REGULATION 455/07
RACES, CONTESTS AND STUNTS
Consolidation Period: From September 30, 2007 to the e-Laws currency date.
No amendments.
This Regulation is made in English only.
Report to Registrar
1. (1) A police officer who requests, under clause 172 (5) (a) of the Act, that a person surrender his or her driver’s licence shall, before providing the person with the notice of suspension required by subsection 172 (10) of the Act, report the request and the following information to the Registrar:
1. The driver’s name.
2. If known, the driver’s address, date of birth and driver’s licence number.
3. The date and time of the request.
4. The location at which the alleged offence under subsection 172 (1) of the Act took place. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 1 (1).
(2) The report under subsection (1) shall be made by any form of telecommunication. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 1 (2).
(3) A police officer who has made a report under subsection (1) shall, as soon as practical after making the report, complete a form provided by the Registrar for that purpose and forward the completed form to the Registrar. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 1 (3).
Definition, “race” and “contest”
2. (1) For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, “race” and “contest” include any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:
1. Driving two or more motor vehicles at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed and in a manner that indicates the drivers of the motor vehicles are engaged in a competition.
2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to chase another motor vehicle.
3. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,
i. driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed,
ii. outdistancing or attempting to outdistance one or more other motor vehicles while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed, or
iii. repeatedly changing lanes in close proximity to other vehicles so as to advance through the ordinary flow of traffic while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (1).
(2) In this section,
“marked departure from the lawful rate of speed” means a rate of speed that may limit the ability of a driver of a motor vehicle to prudently adjust to changing circumstances on the highway. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (2).
Definition, “stunt”
3. For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, “stunt” includes any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:
1. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to lift some or all of its tires from the surface of the highway, including driving a motorcycle with only one wheel in contact with the ground, but not including the use of lift axles on commercial motor vehicles.
2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to cause some or all of its tires to lose traction with the surface of the highway while turning.
3. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to spin it or cause it to circle, without maintaining control over it.
4. Driving two or more motor vehicles side by side or in proximity to each other, where one of the motor vehicles occupies a lane of traffic or other portion of the highway intended for use by oncoming traffic for a period of time that is longer than is reasonably required to pass another motor vehicle.
5. Driving a motor vehicle with a person in the trunk of the motor vehicle.
6. Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the driver’s seat.
7. Driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is 50 kilometres per hour or more over the speed limit.
8. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,
i. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,
ii. stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the driver’s sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so,
iii. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to drive, without justification, as close as possible to another vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object on or near the highway, or
iv. making a left turn where,
(A) the driver is stopped at an intersection controlled by a traffic control signal system in response to a circular red indication;
(B) at least one vehicle facing the opposite direction is similarly stopped in response to a circular red indication; and
(C) the driver executes the left turn immediately before or after the system shows only a circular green indication in both directions and in a manner that indicates an intention to complete or attempt to complete the left turn before the vehicle facing the opposite direction is able to proceed straight through the intersection in response to the circular green indication facing that vehicle. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 3.

Online petitions don't work worth two shits. And they like the law vague like that, it makes them money.

Originally Posted by Oldsy

i hope they take your licence away if your caught... this is a stupid petition in my eyes..... you may as well say its ok to race on the roads

Originally Posted by Oldsy

i hope they take your licence away if your caught... this is a stupid petition in my eyes..... you may as well say its ok to race on the roads

as mentioned the law encompasses much more then speeding, which is where th problem lies. Loosely translated, you can have you car taken away for things as simple as the following:

1) Tailgating

2) Tapping your brakes or slowing down on the hi-way when someone is behind you following to close

3) Turning in front of someone if you are turning left off a red, and other car in opposite direction is coming at you (what used to be a failing to yield)

4) Taking to long to pass on a country road.

5) Closing in on someone driving to slow

6) Spinning the tires

7) Speeding up in the left lane if someone is trying to pass you on the right

8)....cop can even take you car if you are on a bike and he thinks you tried to pull a wheely.

read the law, and come up with about another dozen or so bogus senarios that could come out of what it dictates. The also go through the HTA as it was before...there were charges for all of the things onthe list.

Much like most of the Ontario Sheep, you are ignorant to the new law. The speeding portion of it is the only part that actually makes any sense.

Next time read please...there are a lot of people working really hard to make sure you can drive the streets without fear of you loosing your ride because some cowboy cop thinks you should.

We are all car guys and we all have been profiled, followed, and or charged for nothing at one point inour lives .... this new law is a killer to our hobby. No one is trying to get rid of it, just eliminate the seizure and suspension portion.

Originally Posted by JuMPy

as mentioned the law encompasses much more then speeding, which is where th problem lies. Loosely translated, you can have you car taken away for things as simple as the following:

1) Tailgating

2) Tapping your brakes or slowing down on the hi-way when someone is behind you following to close

3) Turning in front of someone if you are turning left off a red, and other car in opposite direction is coming at you (what used to be a failing to yield)

4) Taking to long to pass on a country road.

5) Closing in on someone driving to slow

6) Spinning the tires

7) Speeding up in the left lane if someone is trying to pass you on the right

8)....cop can even take you car if you are on a bike and he thinks you tried to pull a wheely.

read the law, and come up with about another dozen or so bogus senarios that could come out of what it dictates. The also go through the HTA as it was before...there were charges for all of the things onthe list.

Much like most of the Ontario Sheep, you are ignorant to the new law. The speeding portion of it is the only part that actually makes any sense.

Next time read please...there are a lot of people working really hard to make sure you can drive the streets without fear of you loosing your ride because some cowboy cop thinks you should.

We are all car guys and we all have been profiled, followed, and or charged for nothing at one point inour lives .... this new law is a killer to our hobby. No one is trying to get rid of it, just eliminate the seizure and suspension portion.

You sir, are an idiot.

As far as I see it, every single thing you listed are reasons this law should be in place. You shouldn't be tailgating, you shouldn't tap your brakes to get the asshole off your back, because he's the one that is making the situation dangerous, and you just made it so much worse by tapping the brakes.

You shouldn't be purposely spinning your tires, nor should you be trying to pass 8 cars at a time, and closing in on someone driving to slow sounds like your speeding to begin with, either that, or the person is driving really slow, in which case you should have slowed down way before you "close in".

8)....cop can even take you car if you are on a bike and he thinks you tried to pull a wheely.

Not sure how they can take your CAR when you are on a bike. If its a motorcycle your talking about, its a 2 wheel vehicle. Both wheels are necessary on the ground to operate it safely.. There is no reason pulling a wheelie should be legal in any way on the streets.



Now, while I don't disagree with you that this law is very vague, and some officers take advantage of the vagueness and use the law in ways it was not intended, I do not agree with you that this is a killer to our hobby, our hobby is NOT to drive like complete fucking morons, it is modifying, preserving and getting the most out of our vehicles. However, we do not do this to break street laws, we abide by them, and when we have the itch to do otherwise we go to the track.


Now as for someone "working really hard" for me to not have the fear of driving on the streets. hahaha. Actually I do the work, and its very easy to not drive like an idiot on the streets. I have had my BMW for 3 years now. I got pulled over once, and it was simply a roadside check, no tickets issued, no arguments, just a simple conversation.

Now, don't get me wrong, I have had my fair share of cop issues in terms of speeding, etc. However, now that I am slightly older, I look back at it and realize that 99% of everything I got ticketed for was my own fault, and the cop was just trying to do his job (some do it better then others, but you don't have to deal with a cop if you abide by the laws)

So in the long run, what I am trying to say is, Grow the fuck up, abide by the laws of the street, and you will not have to worry about getting your license suspended or your vehicle seized. As vague as this law is, I hate to say it, its mighty effective. I rarely see anyone on the 401 doing a routine 140km/h drive anymore. The fastest I see people going these days is 120-125. Its unfortunate that these measures were taken and the law was written so poorly, however the general population now scared to drive faster is not helping anyone against the law or the way it was written as its statistically effective.


Now if you ask me to sign a petition asking to go into more detail with the law so it is not as vague and not so much to the discretion of the officer, then I would be all for it. But do not go off to the general public spreading the stupidity that you wrote.

Originally Posted by Guess

You sir, are an idiot.

fair enough .......but so are you for missing the entire point. No one here justifies any of the things I listed. But it was mearly to show its not just for people travelling over 50....like many people think.

If you are all for the police being able to seize your property for simple HTA violations, then don't sign the petition. I prefer due process, and to have my day in court. If I cross the line I deserve a fine, I also have the right to fight it. Where are my rights if I am found innocent, but am out $1000 for towing and impound!

You and a lot of other people need to get you head out of your ass and realize this isn't about being able to drive like fucking morons as you so nicely put it. Its about stopping the stupid laws that seize your property for every little thing. First its this...whats next?

Even under the Dangerous driving charges and DUI charges which are criminal code offenses, your property is not seized for 7 fucking days!! So why is a HTA violation more harsh in this regard?

Under the existing HTA, there were charges for all of the things on that list, why was the law created? Its a joke, a civil violation and a fucking cash grab.....$2000 - $10000 fine for tailgating?

Once again, we are not here to ask the law to go away, we only want the seizure and suspension portions removed..... consider those points, read carefully what the petition is REALLY asking........ and for someone who's getting older, you have some pretty shitty manners

Originally Posted by Guess

So in the long run, what I am trying to say is, Grow the fuck up, abide by the laws of the street, and you will not have to worry about getting your license suspended or your vehicle seized. As vague as this law is, I hate to say it, its mighty effective. I rarely see anyone on the 401 doing a routine 140km/h drive anymore. The fastest I see people going these days is 120-125. Its unfortunate that these measures were taken and the law was written so poorly, however the general population now scared to drive faster is not helping anyone against the law or the way it was written as its statistically effective.

Sorry missed this portion of your post ....... how much do you drive on the 401? I put only 1000 km per week on the 401 ....120-125km/h is the medium speed ...in the middle lane! If you are not doing 130+ in the morning or afternoon commutes in the left, get the hell out of the left, because you will get run over! Where you get your info is beyond me, but clearly you are ignorant on this and a lot of other things.

Harsher penalties do not deter BTW, DUI deaths have been virtually static for the past 10 years. Awareness programs are far more effective. Weekend speeds on the 400 series hi-ways have dropped long before 203 came into effect...it started with OPP blitzes. Those were far more effective.

Originally Posted by JuMPy

fair enough .......but so are you for missing the entire point. No one here justifies any of the things I listed. But it was mearly to show its not just for people travelling over 50....like many people think.

If you are all for the police being able to seize your property for simple HTA violations, then don't sign the petition. I prefer due process, and to have my day in court. If I cross the line I deserve a fine, I also have the right to fight it. Where are my rights if I am found innocent, but am out $1000 for towing and impound!

You and a lot of other people need to get you head out of your ass and realize this isn't about being able to drive like fucking morons as you so nicely put it. Its about stopping the stupid laws that seize your property for every little thing. First its this...whats next?

Even under the Dangerous driving charges and DUI charges which are criminal code offenses, your property is not seized for 7 fucking days!! So why is a HTA violation more harsh in this regard?

Under the existing HTA, there were charges for all of the things on that list, why was the law created? Its a joke, a civil violation and a fucking cash grab.....$2000 - $10000 fine for tailgating?

Once again, we are not here to ask the law to go away, we only want the seizure and suspension portions removed..... consider those points, read carefully what the petition is REALLY asking........ and for someone who's getting older, you have some pretty shitty manners

Oh Boy, where do I start. First off, grab a dictionary and look up "seizure" and "impound", then after you realize the difference, look up "idiot" and paste a picture of yourself.

Nobody is seizing your property. They are impounding it, and while I do not totally agree with them impounding your vehicle if you got pulled over for one of the undefined portions of this law, I totally agree your vehicle should be impounded for 7 days if your doing 230km/h in a 90. You need to calm the fuck down and relax. The reason they impound your vehicle as well as suspend your license is to prevent you from driving your vehicle while your license is suspended, this forces you to hitch a ride (at least to the majority of the public, not those with multiple vehicles).


The HTA violation is NOT harsher the Criminal Code violation of Dangerous Driving. It will cost you all of that $$$ in legal fees, however if convicted you are automatically suspended under the HTA for 1 year. Not to mention a criminal record, a fine to go along with it, and lots and lots of time wasted.


As for DUI's I find it absolutely pathetic the government is not bringing in harsher sentences, but thats politics for you.

Oh, and FYI, when I said older, I didn't mean old. I am 23.

Originally Posted by Guess

Oh Boy, where do I start. First off, grab a dictionary and look up "seizure" and "impound", then after you realize the difference, look up "idiot" and paste a picture of yourself.

Nobody is seizing your property. They are impounding it, and while I do not totally agree with them impounding your vehicle if you got pulled over for one of the undefined portions of this law, I totally agree your vehicle should be impounded for 7 days if your doing 230km/h in a 90. You need to calm the fuck down and relax. The reason they impound your vehicle as well as suspend your license is to prevent you from driving your vehicle while your license is suspended, this forces you to hitch a ride (at least to the majority of the public, not those with multiple vehicles).


The HTA violation is NOT harsher the Criminal Code violation of Dangerous Driving. It will cost you all of that $$$ in legal fees, however if convicted you are automatically suspended under the HTA for 1 year. Not to mention a criminal record, a fine to go along with it, and lots and lots of time wasted.


As for DUI's I find it absolutely pathetic the government is not bringing in harsher sentences, but thats politics for you.

Oh, and FYI, when I said older, I didn't mean old. I am 23.

23 eh? ....explains it ....but don't worry, you will grow up someday

my advice to you, don't sign

Good day sir.

Originally Posted by JuMPy

23 eh? ....explains it ....but don't worry, you will grow up someday

my advice to you, don't sign

Good day sir.

Yes. Explains it. I guarantee you @ 23 I have lived double the life you have and accomplished significantly more. The only reason I resort to that now, is because you have failed to argue any further, and it outright pisses me off that someone with so much advice and so so much to say just gives up on a argument. I guess you see you can't win.

Originally Posted by Guess

The HTA violation is NOT harsher the Criminal Code violation of Dangerous Driving. It will cost you all of that $$$ in legal fees, however if convicted you are automatically suspended under the HTA for 1 year. Not to mention a criminal record, a fine to go along with it, and lots and lots of time wasted.


As for DUI's I find it absolutely pathetic the government is not bringing in harsher sentences, but thats politics for you.

The bolded part is the key part of the argument Tom... If you're charged with dangerous driving, they don't take your license and car on the spot(unless things have changed).. They don't take anything from you until you're actually convicted. With this law, something as stupid as spinning your tires in the snow is enough for a cop to take your license and car for 7 days, and then if you fight it and win you still have the license suspension on your record, as well as owing for impound fees.

Thats how the original poster meant the HTA violations are harsher.

I definitely think the law is WAY too vague.. Like I mentioned above, based on the law spinning tires in a snow storm is illegal if the cop deems it to be. It needs WAY more structure if they're going to go with the on the spot impounding/suspension.

Originally Posted by Guess

Yes. Explains it. I guarantee you @ 23 I have lived double the life you have and accomplished significantly more. The only reason I resort to that now, is because you have failed to argue any further, and it outright pisses me off that someone with so much advice and so so much to say just gives up on a argument. I guess you see you can't win.

Accomplished more have you? ...... give it up. I was raising kids before you were even out of grade school...... You’re young enough to BE my kid!! You’re 23, let me give you a news flash...you've accomplished shit.

I don't want to argue with you, simply, because you don't get it! Nowhere have we advocated that driving like a bafoon is a good thing, you don't understand the laws in depth. Dangerous does indeed come with suspension and a CCOC penalty; it does however give you right to due process. It doesn't happen at the side of the road. Under criminal negligence causing injury or death, the car can be taken, but it isn’t impounded for a full week. In the cases of death or injury, one could make a stronger case for taking a car, for evidence...etc (hence the post by neonSRT, to clarify...thank you neon), In the case of DUI, the car is given back the next day, or if someone is with you that is sober enough, can take the car home with them right there and then!! You seem to think this new law only revolves around 50 over, and you clearly don't get what we are trying to accomplish with the petition. Its not just the premise of the law as it relates to street racing. Its the big picture, its the seizure and impound of vehicles (private property) under a law that entitles WAY to much judgment at the side of the road. The law includes items, which can be falsified, and unjustly issued (cops word against yours). You may and likely would be found innocent later on down the road, but the suspension stays, and the impound and towing costs are yours to take care of....not to mention, what are you supposed to do to get around for a week (cab, bus, mooching off a buddy). What if your livelihood consist of needing your license, and a cop took it away because he thought you made to much noise and accelerated to quickly...or worse yet, because he didn't like the way you look, and figured what the hell, I'm going to make life miserable for this little punk? Who compensates you for loosing your job if that were to happen?....or you're maybe forced to burn a week of vacation...either way its not free, and it certainly is not paid back to you if found innocent. It is essentially a penalty that you CAN NOT reverse!! Your the genius (by your own admission), answer me this, where is the right to due process in all of this? The petition clearly states we do not want the law scrapped, we want the seizure and suspension portions removed, because we (the generation before you), don't want to keep seeing our civil liberties erode, we don't want that the seizure of our private property held over our heads for the slightest justification....it starts with this law...what laws will include these clauses next??? I'm sure Daddy bought you your car, but for the rest of us, our cars were built on hard earned money...same goes for our houses, property ...etc

If the government revised the HTA to impound a vehicle for 50 over, and that’s it, it would be tuff to argue that, although the principle behind it wouldn't change...it might have a semblance of justification, because 50 over the limit must be recorded by some sort of technical device and used as evidence (just like breathalyzer for DUI's). But they didn't, they created a completely new law under completely false pretenses, passed it through using media and public hysteria. They created a perceived problem on the backs of enthusiasts, all this right under your "super educated" 23-year-old nose!

For the record, a woman this winter did have her vehicle taken away for spinning the tires in the snow. The cop claimed she spun them excessively..... So that little judgment cost this woman over a grand to start, and if she is convicted (to my knowledge her court appearance has not happened yet), she will be out another $2,000 - $10,000....for spinning her tires in the snow! ...On the flip side, she got the tow she needed; because she was in fact completely stuck...fantastic law isn't it?

Now you have a choice, you can choose to be a prick, continue to argue points which I am neither bringing up, or condoning, or you can re-read what it is we are trying to do.

^^^um, actually...

I'm pretty sure he bought/paid for his own car, and house, and whatever else he has. So... I wouldn't bring that up.