"Little known fact about the "stunt driving" law:

The 1 week immediate suspension handed out is an ALS or "Administrative Licence Suspension" and is seperate to the stunting/racing charge.

What does that mean? That means even if your charges are dropped , the suspension stays on your record. The MTO cannot take the charge off if the charges are dropped, as the suspension is administered by the police, and not the MTO. the MTO only enforces it.

the ONLY way to have the suspension off your record, is by the police requesting the MTO to take it off your drivers record.

If they do not, it can and has in the past effected insurance rates (Administartive license suspensions are the same as suspension due to unpaid fines). It can stay on your insurance record for 3-6 years, effecting your rates for that period of time.

Wow now that def. would suck!

Just don't drive like an ass clown and make sure your car is safe.

Originally Posted by Trance|Ghost

Wow now that def. would suck!

Just don't drive like an ass clown and make sure your car is safe.

thats the idea....problem is, how long do you think it will take before someone is unjustly nailed with it?...Or maybe the better question, how many have already? Stats I'm getting back from court cases with this law, most are getting off the charge.

This law is fine and dandy, but remove the road side seizure and suspension.

Petition is well over 3000 BTW, thanks to all from here who have signed so far. The Wheels section of the Toronto star even published the petition and a short piece on it this past weekend. Its been fully endorsed by St Thomas Dragway and there are some big hitters above and beyond what I listed that are latching on. It will build momentum.

Signed

Sorry I have not been around. I am currently in Europe and won't be coming back until the 14th. Someone mentioned there were some comments in here that are worth a look over if I have the time, unfortunately I don't so I will answer to them on the 14th. Until then.

Originally Posted by neonSRT

^^ alksdfjlaksdjflaksdjflasjflasdfsadfjas

I love that people assume making some money means you've accomplished a lot in your life...

No offence to Tom, but I could buy a lottery ticket and be just as accomplished if I get lucky using that logic..

To some people there are things that are FAR more important.. Possibly volunteering their time in a third world country to help out a struggling community, or raising a family, etc, etc, etc.

Sigh, I had the time to read this, thought it may of been something relevant. This isn't about me, nor did I intend to start this war with that comment, He simply tried to discount my opinions because of my age.

As for You winning a lottery ticket, that would only make you lucky. Please do not try to justify my business with luck. Timing is everything in life. You can argue it was luck, but where it went came all down to necessary skill.

Perhaps accomplished was a poor choice of word, as Mark Twain once said

"There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded."

Money doesn't buy you happinese but I'm happy cause I can buy what I want anytime that I want, get high when I want!

LOL

That reminds me, my girlfriend is in africa helping children, I got to call her!

Interesting article from Jim McKenzie in Toronto Star today, with an interesting perspective.......plus he gives a plug for the petition as well

Link>>> Hey look at me! I'm a street racer!

Just a slight nudge above 150 km/h and Jim Kenzie joins Fantino's Most Wanted List
Jim Kenzie
Special to the Star


May 24, 2008



I am now officially a "street racer."

I went up to Dave & Buster's in Vaughan, near Highways 7 and 400. I confronted the young kids in their slammed Civics and tarted up STis, and said, "Okay, dudes, who's got a pink slip they want to put up? I got a four-year-old diesel-powered automatic transmission Volkswagen Jetta station wagon, and this silver-haired old man is ready to take on any of you. Anyone got the guts?

"That Natalie Wood look-alike can drop the hanky for me; that Christina Aguilera look-alike can drop the hanky for you."

Well, it didn't happen exactly like that.

I was cruising along with the flow of traffic on the 401 at just under 140 km/h. I thought about the recent furor generated by OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino, that anyone doing 50 over the limit is automatically a street racer, and wondered what it would be like to be a Bad Boy.

So I nudged the accelerator just a titch, and barely saw 150 on the clock.

Wow! I'm a street racer!

In a Volkswagen. Jetta. Station wagon. Diesel. Automatic.

It was so much fun that a few weeks later I tried it again, this time in a 70-hp three cylinder sub-1.0 L Smart car. Okay, so it does have a Ferrari-style Formula One paddle shifter.

And seconds after I backed off from this lofty speed, an OPP paddy wagon went flying by me – no emergency lights – as if I were painted on the pavement.

C'mon, Julian. Get a grip. You can't even convince your own employees to buy into this nonsense.

And I read recently that a cop from another jurisdiction stopped a cop in a marked cruiser, who was allegedly driving more than 50 km over the limit. So much for that "we're-all-in-this-together" theory.

We build highways that are capable of these speeds. We have cars that are capable of these speeds. There is considerable doubt we have drivers that are capable of these speeds, but until or unless you choose to do something about that, you can't keep trying to be King Canute, driving back the tides, trying to keep us from driving at these speeds.

Ontario drivers are voting with their right feet, every single day.

You are proud of the fact that Ontario has the safest highways in North America. Fair enough. And there's no doubt that we shouldn't ever be satisfied, and seek to be even better.

But this little speed vendetta of yours is a complete and utter waste of time, and of scarce police resources.

According to a recent story in the Toronto Star, as of last weekend 5,000 vehicles had been impounded by your new edict, their owners subject to massive financial penalties that will continue to accrue due to raised insurance premiums.

Has it had any effect whatsoever?

Recently, your minions stated that speed-related fatalities have been reduced by 41 per cent from last year, hinting, if not directly claiming, that the street racer law is responsible for this dramatic decrease.

Just as similar claims made to support photo radar 12 years ago proved spurious, this one stinks of statistical skulduggery too.

First, every car crash is "speed-related" to one degree or another. If nobody is moving, i.e. there is no speed, then there are no crashes – unless a stationary car falls off a bridge.

Second, a change of this magnitude to a "mature" statistic like this clearly cannot be attributed to any single intervention, and surely is an anomaly. If there is any joke about statistics, it's that two points make a straight line, three points make a trend. You barely have two points here.

Third, the police seem to still be catching "street racers" in undiminished numbers, which suggests that this intervention is not in fact slowing down many people; anyone with eyes can see the same thing on any stretch of controlled-access highway in this province.

So even if 41 per cent is a robust number, wouldn't we notice a simultaneous decrease in the number of street-racer arrests, and in average speed on the highways?

Not to mention that this procedure flies in the face of a thousand years of British common law jurisprudence, turning the cop into the judge, jury and executioner. The punishment is meted out with the alleged perpetrator never having a minute in court, let alone his day.

(By the way, if this sort of thing turns your crank, there's a petition on this very issue on the web at: petitiononline.com/civil013/.)

Ontario's good traffic safety record has been there for a long time, far longer than this recent endeavour, far longer than you, Mr. Commissioner, have even been in office, so claiming any credit for it at all is fatuous.

Ironically, these speed racer stats were also quoted in a recent Star report of a Victoria Day holiday tragedy where three young women died going approximately zero km/h, after doing a U-turn on a country road. Two apparently weren't wearing their seatbelts, a disturbing sign, but when you get T-boned by a transport truck, seatbelts aren't likely to help.

Here's my bet as to why Ontario has such good overall safety numbers: most such statistics are based on deaths-per-so-many-vehicle-kilometres travelled. It is well known that controlled-access highways are by far our safest roads, because the opportunities for T-bone or head-on crashes – by far the most dangerous type of car crash – are virtually eliminated.

How ironic, again, that highways are also by far our fastest roads.

And I'm guessing that Ontario has a higher percentage of traffic travelling on highways – 401 et al. – than just about anywhere.

Hence, better overall safety numbers. Just a guess.

Not that I am trying to make light of street racing. Okay, I am, but I am not condoning it. Sure, it is an issue, but statistically it is a very small issue.

And automatically slapping that label on anyone who goes 50 over the artificially low speed limit (20 over what I think should be the real limit) isn't going to help.

If you want to do something intelligent about speed on our highways, try following the lead of other jurisdictions that have done it successfully.

The key? Set a realistic speed limit, one that the driving public will buy into, and enforce it consistently.

Most Ontario highways can easily handle 130 km/h. They do, for hundreds of thousands of cars, every day.

So make that the limit, make sure we all know it, and apply the needed enforcement.

Geez, if they can make it work in France – and they have – why won't it work here? Surely it's worth a try.

Oh yeah, it wouldn't hurt if we could do something about our lane discipline too.

Imagine, roads that are faster, more efficient and safer!

Dare to dream, Julian. Dare to dream.

Wheels' chief auto correspondent Jim Kenzie can be reached at jim@jimkenzie.com
Toronto Star

Originally Posted by Guess

Sigh, I had the time to read this, thought it may of been something relevant. This isn't about me, nor did I intend to start this war with that comment, He simply tried to discount my opinions because of my age.

As for You winning a lottery ticket, that would only make you lucky. Please do not try to justify my business with luck. Timing is everything in life. You can argue it was luck, but where it went came all down to necessary skill.

Perhaps accomplished was a poor choice of word, as Mark Twain once said

"There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded."

Tom, you took that 100% the wrong way...

All I meant was that Derek(Trance | Ghost) claimed you were more accomplished just because you have more money than the other guy(again, an assumption, he could be worth billions for all anyone knows). Money doesn't directly equal accomplishment was my point. I know lots of people with money that haven't accomplished a damn thing in their lives. I also know people with little money that I would consider quite accomplished.

I didn't claim you hadn't accomplished anything, just that if money = accomplishment then I could be VERY accomplished with a lucky lottery ticket.

I definitely agree with how things worked out for you.. You did have some luck, but you also had the idea/vision, good marketing plan, etc, etc, etc to pull it off. Not to mention perseverance to stick with ideas until you got a winner.

Originally Posted by neonSRT

Tom, you took that 100% the wrong way...

All I meant was that Derek(Trance | Ghost) claimed you were more accomplished just because you have more money than the other guy(again, an assumption, he could be worth billions for all anyone knows). Money doesn't directly equal accomplishment was my point. I know lots of people with money that haven't accomplished a damn thing in their lives. I also know people with little money that I would consider quite accomplished.

I didn't claim you hadn't accomplished anything, just that if money = accomplishment then I could be VERY accomplished with a lucky lottery ticket.

I definitely agree with how things worked out for you.. You did have some luck, but you also had the idea/vision, good marketing plan, etc, etc, etc to pull it off. Not to mention perseverance to stick with ideas until you got a winner.

Thanks for the clarification, I misread it.

As for the above 130km/h thing, I just skimmed through it briefly but couldn't agree more, realistic speed limits would work much better. I am 5000kms of driving into a European trip, and 60% of the highways I have been on are 130km/h speed limit and thats pretty much all you need. the 110km/h highways I found people doing 140+, and the non limited highways.. well.. I was doing 200+ on so I didn't quite notice what speeds others were doing.

Greeting from Poland BTW!

^^ I forget who, but one F1 or Indy driver was interviewed while in Canada, and asked what the scariest part of driving in Canada was. His answer was that people drive too slow, and are busy eating, drinking, putting on makeup, etc while driving. If everyone was going 130 or 140, they'd be focused just on driving.

Only downside if that went through is that I'd get even worse highway mileage... Gotta love short ratio's on the highway.. haha!!

Oh, and get your ass back to Canada and finish that Cobra already.

UPDATE:

This is a message received by the petition creator

-----------------------------------------

On behalf of the many that are signatore to your petition, thank you for providing this opportunity.

I have a bit of news in regard to the now famous Sec. 172 of the HTA which is to occur in Caledon East, Ontario this Thursday June 5th. There is to be a challenge to the Charter Application which is to be put forth on this day. Obviously it will be put over for judgement but at least there is now a movement by someone to have this law revised (at a minimum) or hopefully eliminated.

I will update you if and when I gain receipt of more information.

do 49 over and you should be okay LOL!

Originally Posted by neonSRT

^^ alksdfjlaksdjflaksdjflasjflasdfsadfjas

I love that people assume making some money means you've accomplished a lot in your life...

No offence to Tom, but I could buy a lottery ticket and be just as accomplished if I get lucky using that logic..

To some people there are things that are FAR more important.. Possibly volunteering their time in a third world country to help out a struggling community, or raising a family, etc, etc, etc.

To many people make assumptions on what they think accomplishing something is. You are completely right. I'm glad to see some people can see beyond the money and greed in this life. Making money means shit fucking all. Drug dealers make money too.

I love the attitude that comes with money. people think they are better than everyone when they have money. it's some form of leverage in their minds. Everything they do is some greater deed than another persons.

Finally....the media is starting to print the other side of the story on this. What a joke of a law!!!

Street racing: thousands charged, few convicted

There will also be a spot on the CBC news tonght at 6:00 pm. This past weekend I spent some time witht he gent that started this petition, and he has been corresponding directly with CBC, and some paralegals about the up coming charter challenge in Caledon east. Some of the details coming out about the mis-use of this law are even more then I was clammering on about.

Gotta law this quote in the article from the cop....what a meat whistle

"OPP Const. Dave Woodford says what happens in court is not his concern. "My concern is getting those people off the road."

Well, it would appear even some of the politicians are starting to question the law

TorontoSun.com - Canada- Racing law queried

and to hear Fantino's quotes....its just sickening

Part 2 of the CBC report.

Even the opposition MP's are questioning the new law now, and calling for a review.

Police, politicians defend street-racing legislation

This is getting fun