g'day

my friend from guelph was driving opposite of a school bus, and just before he got to the bus it turned its lights on. cop saw this, gave him a $490 dollar ticket.

this man is 23, and doesn't have and never has had a single driving infraction on his record since he started driving (6 years ago)

what do you suppose he should do? he's fighting in in court. what would his best defence be?

Those tickets are almost impossible to defend....

All they think of is you endangering little kids lives....

were the lights flashing yellow or red when he went by?
if red he's SOL IMO
if it was yellow then that's the bus' signal that they will be slowing down and making a stop, followed by red lights.

Less the ticket, I've had that happen to me quite a few times taking the back roads to work. They turn on their red lights either while they're slowing down or when you're only a few car lengths in front of them still doing the speed limit and you absolutely wouldn't be able to stop infront of the bus. There's nothing you can do but keep going unless you feel like stoping beside or past the school bus It just sucks that an ass cop was there to ticket him for that.

All I can suggest is talk to the prosecutor and explain the situation.

sometimes... silly as you may feel drawing one up. Draw the scene of the crime give explanation for everything. moment by moment.

Prove that they turned the reds on as you were passing .. (like.. your 10' in front of the bus.. the lights came on... of course you can't stop before passing the bus)

(even our insurance companies hand out little pamphlets with a place to draw a traffic scene)

If it is something like that maybe you can explain that the officer couldn't acuratly "see" the situation (depth perception you know.)

sounds like that is the situation you are trying to explain here... .and I don't believe there should be a ticket in that case.

man.. some big points for not stopping for a school bus. HUGE! NONO.

As far as I know the bus has to be stopped with the overhead red lights flashing and the stop sign arm activated/ extended for a conviction. Not that I am condoning blowing past a school bus with its lights on or not exercising the utmost caution when dealing with kids loading or unloading from a school bus. You never know when one of those little guys are going to bolt out of nowhere infront of you.
That being said I think you would hard pressed to find any police officer that wouldn't lay that charge in a similar situation, just because of the potential consequences.

However:

There seems to be several facts that must be met for that charge: The first would be what qualifies as a 'stopped school bus'? According to the definition it would be one that is 1) actually stopped on a highway (not moving). 2) has it's red overhead lights flashing 3) has actuated the school bus stop arm. Refer to sub section (6) below.

Under sub-section 11 it states that a driver "shall not proceed until the bus moves or ...."
Therefore it would imply that a driver is allowed to proceed when the bus is in motion even if the red flashing lights are active.

So if the bus was still moving and no arm was activated your buddy may have a chance to explain himself. Also someone raised a good point about how far he was from the bus when the lights came on. Those buses dont just turn on the lights, hammer the brakes, and stick the arm out all at once. They usually give fair warning that they are about to stop, hence the section is written regarding school bus driver signals.


Heres the black and white from the HTA:

Duty of drivers when school bus stopped
(11) Every driver or street car operator, when meeting on a highway, other than a highway with a median strip, a stopped school bus that has its overhead red signal-lights flashing, shall stop before reaching the bus and shall not proceed until the bus moves or the overhead red signal-lights have stopped flashing. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 175 (11).

School bus driver, signals
(6) Subject to subsection (9), every school bus driver,
(a) who is about to stop on a highway for the purpose of receiving or discharging children or receiving or discharging adults who have developmental disabilities, shall actuate the overhead red signal-lights on the bus;
(b) as soon as the bus is stopped for a purpose set out in clause (a), shall actuate the school bus stop arm; and
(c) while the bus is stopped for a purpose set out in clause (a) on a highway, shall continue to operate the overhead red signal-lights and stop arm until the passengers have been received or discharged and until all passengers having to cross the highway have completed the crossing. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 175 (6); 2000, c. 26, Sched. O, s. 14; 2001, c. 13, s. 18 (4).

^very well explained, I had no idea it was like that!
thanks for the info

He could goto court n fight it atleast lower the amount....
i almost past one my self.. lol didnt even notice it untill my friend told me n i slammed on the brakes hehe

edit: nevermind SPOC took care of it..lol

i've stopped for a school bus with it's lights on, stop sign extended that continued to drive by me!

Originally Posted by WRC_VERNA

i've stopped for a school bus with it's lights on, stop sign extended that continued to drive by me!

And so you should stop. i'm not trying to pick on you or anyone else, I just want to reinforce the point about saftey when it comes to school buses and kids. Regardless if you were right or wrong in passing a school bus, just imagine how you would feel if you made little-johnny-bus-rider part of your front grill as he ran out to the bus.
Just remember the onus is on each driver all the time to drive safely. No one has "the right of way". The traffic laws are written on a very simple premises of saftey first. There are two phrases in the HTA that keep re-appearing: "...if the movement can be made in saftey" and "...if it is safe to do so...".
I just dont want to see anyone get injuried or killed by driving wrecklessly because they think they can beat a ticket in court.

i've stopped for a school bus with it's lights on, stop sign extended that continued to drive by me!

The Bus around here does that too. They flip on the red lights at 40kph, stop, let on the kids, drive off with the lights on, WOT, then stop 11 inches down the road to pick up the next kid, lights never go off for the entire street.

When I was a kid, you had to walk 27km's uphill both ways in the snow to the bus drop-off and pickup point, None of this stopping at every house bit...

Paul

^ Are You sure its not a handicapped or deaf schoolbus? maybe one reserved for small children? they often make stops at specific houses. most highschool etc. has a few major stops like You said though. (I spend about 30 minutes a day behind buses, I've noticed this pattern.)

kindergarten kids get picked up at their house.
after that they can walk 3 houses (or a few more in cities)
highschool can walk up to 1km.

(my mom is a bus driver)