If people can turbo a stock neon engine(stock internals), and run 13's running 8-10psi (13.0's with some weight redux, and slicks), then I don't see it being that hard to get a sunfire into the 14's with low boost...

Sunfire GT's should run about 15.7 or 15.8 stock, and I'm sure a 2.2 should run 16.4 or so...

Think about it... ITR has 200hp, runs about 14.7 stock(so says honda)... now give it a MUCH wider torque band, and way more peak torque in a car that weighs about the same and see what you'd run...

2100us for a complete turbo kit at www.cavalierconnection.com

IMHO, keep your daily driver stock and reliable. Turboing and spending coin to get to 14s is just going to be a thrill for a seasn or two. No diss, but 14s are pretty slow. That platform isn't the ebst to be modding -- FWD, not the best handling car/brakes/etc.

If it were me, I'd get a used two stroke dirt bike and ride the crap out of it. Faster, cheapish ($2000-$6000), better handling, wheelie monster, 12s or faster easy. Of if one can't handle a bike, save for a used LT1/LS1 f-body. RWD, V8, lots of upward power potential.

I disagree, for one, a dirt bike is fun only if you got places to ride and obviosuly time to get out and ride it, and also you can't go ride it in the winter. Some other disatvantages of a bike are: no stereo, heat, room for pasenger or lugage.
The LS1, V8 machines are sure good in a straight line, but the sunfire would be a much better car for race course track IMO, not to mention that is easier to drive in winter and doesn't consume gas like its going out of style.

I say a Turbo Sunfire would be a very enjoyable car if is tuned properly and if not too much boost is pushed thru, it would remain reliable as well.
Yes not the fastest thing around but when compare to the sea of curs/trucks/suvs/vans on the road a 14's second car is pretty quick.

Originally Posted by vwguy

I disagree, for one, a dirt bike is fun only if you got places to ride and obviosuly time to get out and ride it, and also you can't go ride it in the winter. Some other disatvantages of a bike are: no stereo, heat, room for pasenger or lugage.
The LS1, V8 machines are sure good in a straight line, but the sunfire would be a much better car for race course track IMO, not to mention that is easier to drive in winter and doesn't consume gas like its going out of style.

I say a Turbo Sunfire would be a very enjoyable car if is tuned properly and if not too much boost is pushed thru, it would remain reliable as well.
Yes not the fastest thing around but when compare to the sea of curs/trucks/suvs/vans on the road a 14's second car is pretty quick.

You're allowed to disagree, even if you're wrong.

Come on, we live in Cambridge/KW. There are TONS of places to ride. If you're stuck for dirt bike riding, PM me and come on out.

RE: winter: I'm sure most serious track cars (RWD of FWD, even nice AWD track cars) get garaged, so it's not a bike only disadvantage. Also, the dirt bike stays out all winter too -- I don't use ice tires (nails on the tires) but the knobbies are alright in the snow and fun as hell.

You use your reliable/stock beater car afor stereo/passenger/luggage. Insurance is cheaper that way too.

A LS1, live axle or not (f-bodies = solid rear end, Corvettes = IRS), are better track cars than any Sunfire, turbo or no. Go to www.scca.org. Look at the Solo2 rankings of cars for stock classes. The LS1 is in B-stock I think, Corvettes are in A (second best class) I think. Sunfires are wayyy down in G class I believe. Also, LS1/LT1s are actually not too bad on gas, believe it or not.

No diss on Sunfires, I'm just telling the truth, slapping a turbo on it won't:
a) make it fast
b) make it handle
c) make it brake

www.scca.org has literally thousands of guys/gals racing. They move cars around in classes to make them competitive. I tend to trust their race rankings.

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2003/stockc.html

Don't spend a lot of money on a not-so-hot platform for modifications. You'll top out its max soon and then it's $$ if you want more power. Reliability goes down too.

OK i have to admit i'm wrong and my oppinion is biased towards what i like. You obviously make very good points and have proof to support them, and ether the bike or the LS1 car does make more sence then the Sunfire, but i would probably still chose the sunfire route for the following reasons.

1) I'm affraid to get on a bike and would probably never get on one my whole life. I don't know why, is just one of those things. If i won't even get on a street bike or Harley as a passenger, i doubt i will be riding dirt bikes.

2) The ls1 cars are a little too large for my taste. I moslty like sport compacts with small "fighter" engines.


Also my ideal car, would be something econmical on gas, w/ all the confort features (full interior, heated seats, big stereo, etc etc), that could be driven all year and also be a track car (both drag & course) while not loosing too much of its stock drivability & reability.
That is pretty much my goal w/ the Golf.

Originally Posted by neonSRT

Think about it... ITR has 200hp, runs about 14.7 stock(so says honda

ITR has much better gearing, stock LSD. Anyways show me the timeslip for the boosted sunfire.
BTW a sunfire would NEVER make a better track car than a camaro. People insult mustang/camaro handling but it would take an insanely modified sunfire to keep up with a camaro on the track.

Forgot to add jbodies have the oldest and worst suspension setups available.

Originally Posted by SlickMR2

ITR has much better gearing, stock LSD. Anyways show me the timeslip for the boosted sunfire.
BTW a sunfire would NEVER make a better track car than a camaro. People insult mustang/camaro handling but it would take an insanely modified sunfire to keep up with a camaro on the track.

ITR's also have NO torque, and a HP peak that requires those short gears... Turbo cars with wide flat torque bands LOVE longer gears.

Camaro's really aren't good handling cars, they make up all their time in the straights. Take it to a small autox course where handling is WAY more important than HP and you'll see...

I've got no proof for the turbo sunfire, but theres TONS of guys in the US running 13's in 1st gen turboed neons with completely stock engines...

Originally Posted by neonSRT

Camaro's really aren't good handling cars, they make up all their time in the straights. Take it to a small autox course where handling is WAY more important than HP and you'll see...

And you base this on?

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2003/stockc.html
www.scca.org[/url]

ITR's also have NO torque, and a HP peak that requires those short gears... Turbo cars with wide flat torque bands LOVE longer gears.

Camaro's really aren't good handling cars, they make up all their time in the straights. Take it to a small autox course where handling is WAY more important than HP and you'll see...

I've got no proof for the turbo sunfire, but theres TONS of guys in the US running 13's in 1st gen turboed neons with completely stock engines...[/quote]
Camaros arent that great on road courses, but please, atleast they have a suspension setup that is from the last decade. Just about anything will own a sunfire in terms of handling. And since we're talking road course why don't we try out the that torqueless itr versus any sunfire. Case closed.

Well who in the right mind is gona take a Sunfire on the STOCK suspension to a race course ???
Even ChippedFire's is lowered. I'm sure there are coilover kits that will improve the handeling to at least Camaro levels.

Originally Posted by vwguy

Well who in the right mind is gona take a Sunfire on the STOCK suspension to a race course ???
Even ChippedFire's is lowered. I'm sure there are coilover kits that will improve the handeling to at least Camaro levels.

Lowered isnt going to make a different on those cars, the suspension setup is still terrible. And even if the camaro is a pig it will still out handle a modified sunfire. I dont have a particular interest in camaros or sunfires, I'm just saying what is a fact.

Well i'm sure if you change shocks/springs/antirollbars/bushings and add strut bars, is bound to make a difference in any car.

coilover kits for sunfires/cavaliers...CRAP! They ride like shit and handle like shit. I had coilovers in for a week and I sold them. KYB Shocks and Eibachs are what I have now along with a front and rear strut braces and it handles great for me.

I have to agree the suspensions setup is nothing great...but there's always room for improvement. Its drive great now to say the least

Originally Posted by SlickMR2

Camaros arent that great on road courses, but please, atleast they have a suspension setup that is from the last decade. Just about anything will own a sunfire in terms of handling. And since we're talking road course why don't we try out the that torqueless itr versus any sunfire. Case closed.

Wow.. you totally missed the point...

Camaro's with their live axle rear suspension are FAR from handling champs, thats 60+ year old technology at work...

I was using the ITR as a reference as to how fast a turbo sunfire should be, nothing more...

As for someone saying coilovers sucked, do you have anything to base the handling sucking by? Assuming you didn't have it riding the bump stops it should've handled way better. Ride harsh, maybe, but thats no gauge on handling.

My car corners FLAT through pretty much anything you can throw at it with just KYB struts, coilovers and a big rear sway bar(little twitchy in the snow/ice). Give my stickier rubber, and it'll be just that much more impressive... Now to build some HP to back it up...

Originally Posted by Bikeman

And you base this on?

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2003/stockc.html
www.scca.org

If you read that list from the first link you'll notice that it isn't neccessarily based on handling..

Acura NSX is in a class below an M5, but I'm pretty sure it'll out handle the M5 any day... AND the Plymouth Prowler is in the same class as a camaro SS and firebird WS6...

Originally Posted by neonSRT

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2003/stockc.html
www.scca.org

If you read that list from the first link you'll notice that it isn't neccessarily based on handling..

Acura NSX is in a class below an M5, but I'm pretty sure it'll out handle the M5 any day... AND the Plymouth Prowler is in the same class as a camaro SS and firebird WS6...

Well, that list is based on thousands of people racing on road courses. if a car does well and kills everything in its class, it goes up a class. If it sucks arse and gets killed, it moves down a class. It's literally real world data.

Thats full course racing, not Auto X like I said before...

Big HP cars make up ALOT of time in the straights, but on a small tight auto X course it would be a totally different story...

Originally Posted by Bikeman

If it were me, I'd get a used two stroke dirt bike and ride the crap out of it. Faster, cheapish ($2000-$6000), better handling, wheelie monster, 12s or faster easy.

What dirt bike does 12s stock? Those shit-boxes can barely break into triple digit speeds.

hey hey! TurboABA..your back! SUP????